In Depth & News Letters

In Depth & News Letters



Official Newsletter of the Submariners Association

Patron: Admiral of the Fleet Lord Boyce KG GCB OBE DL

Issue No: 58 | October 2017

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Hello Everyone. Welcome to ‘In Depth’ No. 58. Thank you to all who have contributed to this Issue. I have included the First Sea Lord’s ‘Open Letter’ to the Daily Telegraph upholding the good work done by the Royal Navy in general and the Navy’s recent and on-going support to the Caribbean Islands and Territories in particular. You will find reports on the recent Dundee Submarine Memorial Parade, the unveiling of a new Memorial to the WWII HMS OLYMPUS and her crew in Malta, HMS ASTUTE’s recent return to Operations, the ‘Paying Off’ of HMS TORBAY, a report on the recent NATO Submarine Rescue Exercise and an item about the new Managing Director at the BAE Shipyard.
John Clayden has provided a brief on the new Submarine Advisory Group to the National Museum of the Royal Navy - on which Group Ted Hogben is the SA Representative.There is an article on the Centenary of the tragic loss of the Battle Ship HMS VANGUARD during WWI.  There are two items from Australia about crew members of HMA Submarine AE2 in the Gallipoli Campaign and two items from Branches – Cyril Raines reports on the Kingston Upon Hull Veterans Weekend and the Barrow Branch reports on a joint charitable donation with HMS AUDACIOUS to a Barrow Primary School.

There is an article on the Centenary of the tragic loss of the Battle Ship HMS VANGUARD during WWI. There are two items from Australia about crew members of HMA Submarine AE2 in the Gallipoli Campaign and two items from Branches – Cyril Raines reports on the Kingston Upon Hull Veterans Weekend and the Barrow Branch reports on a joint charitable donation with HMS AUDACIOUS to a Barrow Primary School.You will find all the regular items – New Joiners, Members ‘Crossed the Bar’, Submarine Losses of WWI and the next Chapter of ‘K26 – The Steam Submarine’.
Amongst other items I have included two Obituaries of well know Submariner Officers – WWI Submarine CO Commander ‘Tubby’ Crawford - who died at the age of 100 and Commodore Lawrence (Laurie) Brokenshire.
Hopefully you will find something in this News Letter of interest. As ever please read and enjoy. Comments and suggestions are always acceptable – but polite comments only please!


Barrie Downer


Issue No. 59 of IN DEPTH is due for publication on 1st January 2018.

Contributions for the next Issue should be with the Editor by 15th December 2017 to ensure your story/article is considered. Please note my new E Mail address which is

Cover Picture:   Wreaths laid at the Dundee Memorial on Saturday 9th September

Chairman’s Report

Friends and Fellow Submariners,
The summer months are now behind us and on reflection it wasn't too bad a summer here in good old UK, especially when you compare our weather with that of the so called 'tropical paradise' areas of the world. We are very fortunate that we don't really have any extremes in weather on a regular or annual basis. So, when you are sitting with your oppos enjoying a pint, spinning dits and moaning about the British weather, spare a thought for those who have lost everything in their tropical paradise.
Keith Bishop: It would be wrong not to mention the recent passing of our Membership Secretary, Keith Bishop. Keith ‘Crossed the Bar’ in the early hours of 1st August whilst staying the night with his friend Ian Atkinson to break his journey home from an NMC meeting.
Keith's passing meant that there had to be a re-assignment of roles within the NMC to ensure we functioned in a proper and sustainable manner.
So, the following changes will take place with immediate effect and continue through to the NCC in March.
Jim McMaster will take on the role of Chairman/Secretary
Nigel Mellor will take on the role of Treasurer by 'double-banking' Ian Atkinson
David Woolterton is co-opted on to the NMC in the role of Membership Secretary. [This is in accordance with R & C, NMC Standing Orders paragraph 2 (f)]
Ian Atkinson will take on the role of Dolphin Branch Secretary.
In the intervening time, we now seek volunteers to take on the following roles on a permanent basis, taking effect from the date of the NCC in March 2018
National Secretary - Terms of Reference available on request
National Treasurer - Terms of Reference available on request
National Membership Secretary
Anyone interested in any of these roles and wishes to volunteer should send their names to Chairman/Secretary. A panel of NMC members will assess the suitability of all volunteers.
Embankment Parade Sunday 5th November 2017.
Once again, the event this year will take place in the gardens of Middle Temple. Several members have asked why we no longer hold this very important annual event at the location of the National Submarine Memorial on Victoria Embankment. There is no one single reason for this but in fact a combination of circumstances. We discussed the matter in detail with the relevant authorities in London, the Police, TfL and London Events Manager and the outcome is that it is just not feasible to have the Service as we used to do. The installation of the Cycle Super Highway immediately in front of our Memorial and all along the Victoria Embankment has reduced the width of the dual carriageway to such an extent that shutting of one side is no longer sufficient to allow traffic to flow freely. To allow us sufficient space would require the shutting down of at least 10 streets! This would need a lot more police to manage this situation and the cost would be £5,000 - £10 000 which we would have to pay. Totally prohibitive at the upper estimate. Another consideration is the number of people who now attend this prestigious event. Because of the new road conditions those attending would be stretched right along the Embankment to such an extent that it would be meaningless for those at the extremities. A minor point is that they have now installed an ornamental lamp post immediately in front of the monument which would make it difficult to form up and hold the service. If these were not enough to hinder us the police reminded us that security would be incredibly difficult with the now favoured tactic of terrorists to drive a vehicle directly into crowds. Imagine if you can the chaos that would cause with the VVIPs who attend our Service.
So, I'm afraid the Service of Remembrance is not going to take place at our Memorial. The Middle Temple gardens are situated immediately across the road from the Memorial so we can lay our wreaths there with some dignity on completion of the formal service.

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This is not the best place for us to have a lamp post!

Those who have attended the event in these gardens will know that although there is more than ample space for the parade to muster there is a limited space for seating. For that reason, the seating we do have is reserved for those who really do require one, i.e. due to infirmity, disability or age. Could I please ask that you ask all of your members attending if they are in need of a seat, we have set aside a disabled seating area but are limited by numbers. If you know if anyone that fits this need please let Nigel Mellor know before the event. Contact Nigel on .
Submarine Oscars Evening:
Have you purchased your ticket yet for this event? The date is Thursday 5th October 2017 and the venue is the WO & SR Mess HMS NEPTUNE. Tickets cost £15 per person and this will get you a 'welcome' drink on arrival, three course meal, table wine and coffee, live entertainment - comedian and live music, and of course the presentation of well-earned awards. This event has been very well publicized so I don't need to go into any more detail. However, if you do require more information or wish to book your ticket please contact CWO Andy Knox on Base extension 6276 or Dress Code for the evening is 'Black Tie'! Don't leave it too late or you will miss your chance to take part in a special night.
Annual Reunion 2018:
By now you should have received the relevant paperwork for this very popular annual event. Please get your Reunion accommodation and menu requirements in to Iain Mackenzie as soon as possible. If you have not received the information then contact your Branch Secretary now and ask him why he has not sent it to you. The venue this year is the Yew Lodge Hotel, Packington Hill, Kegworth, Derby, DE24 2DF and will be held over the weekend of Friday 23 March to Sunday 25 March.
I look forward to meeting up with you all. Remember, this is an opportunity to meet up with old oppos some of whom you may not have seen since Nelson was a boy, a chance to share a pint or three and spin those dits! Book now - you won't regret it.
National Council Conference (NCC) 2018:
It's that time of year again when I remind you that the NCC will be held on the Saturday of the Reunion weekend. I would encourage every branch to send a Delegate to this important gathering and ensure that you have your voice heard on matters affecting the running of YOUR association.
Each year there are two places available on the NMC and this year is no different. These places are open to all Full Members of the Association so if you think that you can make a difference and would like to take an active role in running the Association get your name and short CV to me by the closing date of 31st December 2017. I can be contacted on . This is your chance to contribute.
The post of National Chairman is also available this year but this position is limited to those who are presently or have in the past served on the NMC. I know that there has been a lot of discussion regarding finding me a role when I step down after two stints of being the Chairman but I can now inform you that I am not obliged to step down as previously thought - there has been a very embarrassing misunderstanding of the Rules & Constitution. I am eligible and I will be putting my name forward for re-election to the post of National Chairman in 2018. I won't bore you here with all the details of the R & C misunderstanding but I would be very willing to discuss with you if you wish. However, I would suggest that prior to this you check the Minutes of the NCC meeting held in 2011!!
The date of 31st December is also the cut-off date for any Proposals for any amendments, changes, alterations, additions to our Rules & Constitution. These proposals must be with the National Secretary in writing by that date. Each Proposal requires a Seconder. If you require any further information or advice on this matter please contact me and I will help where I can.
The cold wet months of winter are now upon us so once again I would ask that you all wrap up well, keep warm and dry and look after yourselves and don't forget to check up on the welfare of our older members or the neighbours who live close-by. It will only take you a minute or two but will make a big, big difference to them.
In the meantime

Keep on Keeping on.

A full copy of this version can be downloaded from the below link in PDF Format.
Latest InDepth No 58

InDepth Newsletter

Here is an extract of the latest In Depth Newsletter. A full copy of this and the previous version can be downloaded from these links in PDF Format.

Latest InDepth No 58

InDepth No 57


Rear Admiral Niall SR Kilgour CB

Jim McMaster
1, Blantyre Court
Bargarran, Erskine
Renfrewshire PA8 6BN
0141 571 4094
J. McMaster Esq

Vice Chairman:

Iain. MacKenzie Esq.
46 Almora Drive
G82 1AE
I. MacKenzie Esq

National Secretary:
Nigel Mellor Esq
17 Wyke Way
Shropshire TF11 8SF
07427 159476
N. Mellor Esq

Ian Atkinson Esq.
48, Craggyknowe
Hawthorn Park, Washington
Tyne & Wear NE37 1JZ
0191 416 7996
I. Atkinson Esq

Membership Secretary:
David Woolterton Esq.
2 Thornton Close
SO24 9FE
01962 734940 or 07713448734
D. Woolterton Esq

Barrie Downer Esq
37, James Watt Terrace
Barrow in Furness
LA14 2TS
01229 820963
B. Downer Esq

InDepth Newsletter

A full copy of the previous version can be downloaded from Here: InDepth No 57

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The Submariners Association is an Association of ex and serving Submariners which seeks to maintain the special bonds of friendship, loyalty and comradeship, together with a pride in the Submarine Service, formed during service in Her Majesty's Submarines.

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